Hi Reece and Ontario Traffic Man, thank you for your video on Dutch (and Belgian) rail infrastructure! Impressed by how well-informed you guys are! I would love to provide some additional feedback to your video's.
1. (Passport Checks) – The passport checks nowadays are in my opinion well implemented in the Netherlands. The Dutch government together with the UK government have signed a treaty allowing for UK Border checks in the Netherlands. These checks are conducted at both Amsterdam Centraal station and Rotterdam Centraal station. Passengers can clear customs and passport control PRIOR to boarding the train.
2. (Domestic fares) – Domestic train travel on the high speed lines are also accessible when it comes to paying fares. Domestic trains do not require a reservation and only in the Netherlands a small supplement on a train ticket is required on the Schiphol-Rotterdam route. So far I know the supplement fare + regular train ticket is also applicable on the Brussels-Liege route for ICE-trains. The IC-Direct service from Amsterdam to Brussels also doesn't require a reservation and the fare is fixed. This is contrast to Germany f.e. where train travel on high speed lines do not require tickets bought in advance but are highly encouraged given by the immense fare paid for tickets that are not fixed to a specific train (zugbindung).
3. (Planned new routes) – New high-speed rail links are also considered for further complementation of our exisiting high-speed rail network. Interesting is the Lelylijn high-speed link which is planned between Lelystad and Groningen/Zwolle with vmax 200 km/h. Existing rail links between Lelystad and Amsterdam Zuid would see upgrades for increased vmax. Also, the line between Amsterdam-Utrecht is designed for vmax 200 km/h.
4. (Improved rail Belgium/Luxembourg) – In Belgium, construction is underway to increase line speed to vmax 200 (or 160) km/h on some sections between Brussels and Luxembourg City which also would decrease travel time and increase connectivity between both Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands. Completion is foreseen in 2026 (at least…)
5. (Deutschlandtakt) – You have also briefly touched this subject, I see. Just to add: In Germany, regarding Deutschlandtakt, the German government is renewing track and signaling between the Dutch border and Dusseldorf which would also help decrease travel time between Amsterdam-Dusseldorf-Frankfurt, and will also allow for an hourly service if desired. Also, considerations are made to Utrecht-Dutch Border to increase top speed to 200 km/h vmax. This would at least allow for a much faster service.
6. (Off-topic) – When it comes to shared mobility, best practices in both the Benelux/Germany could be implemented in the Windsor Corridor which could boost public transit in this region. So far I have seen, the bottleneck really is with the governments who only have legislation on restricting micromobility where-ever possible and not paying attention to making streets bike friendly. Interesting subject for you perhaps? Would love to help!
I must point out that the UK has conventional (i.e. non high-speed) 125 mph trains. The average, when not on strike, from Euston to Warrington can be 105 minutes or 104 mph.
I’m actually planning on moving to the Netherlands in the future so this video did a great job describing what to expect in terms of train travel and all I can say is this only makes me more excited to move there
Would add 2 things here: (1) while there is no dedicated HSL in Luxembourg, the French TGV actually does go there from Paris, Montpellier and Marseille (via the LGV Est). Also the Bxl – Lux line is currently being upgraded. While not HSL it might allow through running services (a propper Benelux train) going forward. This will depend though on the final speeds achieved.
well the Netherlands may be small, it’s very dense, with a density of about 500 people per sqkm, on par with South Korea for example, and ~66% denser than Japan even, in fact: If the US had the same population density as the Netherlands it would have a population of 5 BILLION, with a B
Just come back to the UK from Belgium (by train from the Brussels city to the car park then car + eurotunnel) so can’t wait to see this! We took the eurotunnel rather than the Eurostar simply because of the price! Had to park in the airport parking in Brussels and take the train into the city though because we couldn’t prove that the car meets euro 5 standards even though it does. If anyone is thinking of going to Brussels I would say you should! Transport there is amazing and the city centre is very walkable. The cars generally stop for pedestrians waiting to cross too which is amazing! Transport from the airport (where we parked) is very efficient but if you are coming from the UK as a single traveller or couple (or can afford the Eurostar as a family) id say the Eurostar is easier because it takes you right into the city.
Just because a country is small doesnt mean it doesnt need high speed rail. That logic would only apply if it was an island nation for example UK 🥲Odd opening premise but great video.
In Belgium, the implementation of High-Speed train and construction of HSL was completely phased. When the First TGV ran from Paris to Brussels, only the French part was High-speed. And slowly, but surely, the HSL were build up to enhance the service between those 2 cities lowering the travel time from 2h15 to 1h35. Even the entrance in Brussels south station was build afterwards to gain the last 5 minutes on travel time. That's one of the big advantages of the multicurrent feature of the Thalys PBA & PBKA (Paris-Brussels-Köln-Amsterdam) is that they can run on conventional line if the HSL is not (yet) ready.
Small comment about the HSL3 ending at the border, after about 30km there is another highspeed capable line from Düren to Cologne. But yeah, no way of continuing at high speeds after Aachen until you get to Düren.
5:30 Interestingly. this particular ICE set is owned by the Dutch railways (through NS International) as you can tell by the NS logos instead of the usual DB ones (and the name of the set, "Amsterdam"). I believe the Dutch-owned ICE fleet is also used for ICE International services that run completely outside the Netherlands (like those between Brussels and Germany), so there's no real practical difference between sets with a DB logo vs. those with an NS logo, but it's definitely interesting.
Two remarks: 1. I do like that youre "ego" allowes to use other enthousiastics to fill in content like the Thalys part. To be honest , this proofs that your will to give verified and accurate information is superceding your will to do everything yourself. Even when it could hurt the reality. Big plus 2. @14:10.. Eurostar and Thalys merged and will become Eurostar as combined brand. Haha.. to hear this for the first time as a Dutchman from a Canadia …🤣
one thing i'd like to note is that between brussels and just outside of gent there is a small hsl like track (sort of like the hanzellijn) which was originally built for the thalys extension to oostende if said train is equipped with etcs and can operate faster than 160 kmh they are allowed to go at 200 kmh
The interruption at the Belgian-German border is just a few kilometers though, the highspeed part continues in Düren, into Cologne and then further toward Frankfurt etc.
Whats also interesting concerning the connection to germany is that Deutsche Bahn has (theoretically) the permission to use the Eurotunnel with its trains. They originally had plans to use it to connect cologne via brussels and amsterdam via brussels to London. Not only would that make the price for a connection to London a lot cheaper(Not paying DB, SNCB AND Eurostar, but only DB), but also the tunnel would get used more frequently. Unfortunately this was in the late 2010s and additionally to the Brexit which would mean passport controls on the british border, that project seems to be kinda given up on, which i think is sad.
Getting on to the Eurostar (returning to London) at Amsterdam Centraal was a little weird. My ticket didn't get me to the line and had to be let into the station by one of the station employees. Then had to go up to a platform where there is a passport office and had to wait for that too open. The office itself is pretty small. Like the size of two medium/large sized coffee shops. Still it was better than taking the plane albeit slightly slower. The difference is small enough thanks to passport control, (it is just a lot faster for the Eurostar), that the more comfortable train compared to having to lounge around a crowded airport, spoke to me. Also better views from a train than a plane.
There is a plan to build a new high speed rail connection in the Netherlands: the Lelylijn, from Lelystad to Groningen. Most studies now take 200 km/h as the build speed, but it has yet to be decided if it will actually be built. At the moment, the government has reserved 3 billion euros for it. Campaigners are expecting a contribution from the EU and from the local governments to fill the gap. This would shorten journey time significantly: as you can see at 10:34, the line to Groningen and Leeuwarden are everything but direct, made worse by the fact trains in NL generally run 140 km/h, even though the sections are pretty straight; in the curves that even visible from this map, trains need to slow down significantly. As it stands, even tough Groningen is much closer to Rotterdam than to Paris, one is quicker by train in Paris than in Groningen.
Another small thing: the line from Brussels to Gent, and then onwards to Oostende, is sometimes called HSL 0 due to its very straight alignment and lack of level crossings. Efforts are made now to increase speeds and quad track the corridor. This would allow running at 200km/h one day…
Not every BeNe HSL is built for 300 km/h, L3 Liège-Aachen has a max speed of 260 km/h. The limited speed of Line 25N is likely capacity related, similar to the Gotthard Base Tunnel since it is already equipped with ETCS.
ÖBB Nightjet using any Belgian HSR lines would be news to me since the NJ needs 2:08h to go from Aachen to Bruxelles, while THA or ICE do it in 1:14. This is especially sad because Wien-Bruxelles already suffers from its high trip time and the NJ could do 200 km/h.
While I totally agree with you about Eurostar border checks being inhibiting to train service, the UK government doesn't allow for any other solution. Maybe it's better after the next election but I doubt it.
A bit off topic, but wtf North America?!: I live near the Parc Exo station in Montreal and it is a bummer that it runs so infrequently…it could be a cool connection for newcomers in Parc X to get up to the mountains..You can bike up the the petit train du nord from the terminus at St Jérôme yet no one takes these trains so of course they are infrequent. We're all hyper about the REM but it would be cool to cover the EXO in Montreal (and compare to the flourishing European rail like Berlin, where the S Bahn actually carries people to places…I want the Exo to be that). Love your videos!
The Intercity Direct is one of the best things that happened on Dutch rail in the recent decade in my opinion. These are great, because they reduce the traveling time a lot. For example: from Rotterdam to Schiphol Airport it takes only 23 minutes with the train, while it takes 41 minutes with car. Same with Breda to Rotterdam, via the HSL: 23 minutes with train and 40 minutes with the car.
In my opinion High Speed lines in the BE and NL doesn't make much sense, at least at the speed of 300 km/h. HS trains take a lot of time (and distance) to accelerate to such velocity, and those lines are simply not long enough to reap the benefits, i.e. between Amsterdam and Rotterdam Thalys is only 3 min quicker then the IC Direct. Here the ICNG approach, with max 200 km/h, looks much more reasonable, especially if that can reach the top speed earlier then TRAXX pulled ICs, or Thalys EMUs. The way to have somewhat effective 300 km/h there would be to build a direct line between Amsterdam, and Brussels, and between Brussels, and Cologne, but then Rotterdam, Antwerp, Liege, and Aachen would be underserved, which doesn't make much sense either.
2:54 Well, actually there is a high-speed connection in Germany, the upgraded Cologne–Aachen high-speed line. Roughly 70% of the track allows 200-250 km/h 13:45 Unfortunately, they never realized HSL-Oost, linking Amsterdam via Utrecht to Germany (Osnabrück), which would be SOOOOO important for a true European high-speed network. Connections like Amsterdam–Hannover–Berlin–Warsaw or Amsterdam–Hamburg–Copenhagen–Stockholm/Oslo could replace most air traffic. Amsterdam–Utrecht–Osnabrück are ~230 km apart, the fastest IC connection took 3 h, half of that should be possible.
This is annoying to watch. Because a lot of 'would better if's' that you mention are allready in place. Just like an almost hourly service between Paris and Amsterdam. Via Schiphol. So not 1 train a day. Or the Eurostar passport-check before boarding in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. That is allready in order. I get that it is not easy to find all the information. But for me, as I work with trains in the Netherlands, it is irritating to watch. Because it is an almost perfect system. Come check them out! And also our new HST ICNG NS 200Kp/H trainsets. Between Amsterdam via Rotterdam to Breda. Or The Hague to Eindhoven. A Intercity Direct (ICD) service. Our equivalent to the ICE or TGV of HST trains within the Netherlands. In the future also the ICD between Amsterdam and Brussels.
I do think it's important to mention that the Dutch NS asks an additional fee to use the InterCity Direct, that goes over the HSL while the Belgian NMBS just let you use every possible ticket on the HSL line.
37 Comments
Great video! I totally agree with that middle part
Hi Reece and Ontario Traffic Man, thank you for your video on Dutch (and Belgian) rail infrastructure! Impressed by how well-informed you guys are! I would love to provide some additional feedback to your video's.
1. (Passport Checks) – The passport checks nowadays are in my opinion well implemented in the Netherlands. The Dutch government together with the UK government have signed a treaty allowing for UK Border checks in the Netherlands. These checks are conducted at both Amsterdam Centraal station and Rotterdam Centraal station. Passengers can clear customs and passport control PRIOR to boarding the train.
2. (Domestic fares) – Domestic train travel on the high speed lines are also accessible when it comes to paying fares. Domestic trains do not require a reservation and only in the Netherlands a small supplement on a train ticket is required on the Schiphol-Rotterdam route. So far I know the supplement fare + regular train ticket is also applicable on the Brussels-Liege route for ICE-trains. The IC-Direct service from Amsterdam to Brussels also doesn't require a reservation and the fare is fixed. This is contrast to Germany f.e. where train travel on high speed lines do not require tickets bought in advance but are highly encouraged given by the immense fare paid for tickets that are not fixed to a specific train (zugbindung).
3. (Planned new routes) – New high-speed rail links are also considered for further complementation of our exisiting high-speed rail network. Interesting is the Lelylijn high-speed link which is planned between Lelystad and Groningen/Zwolle with vmax 200 km/h. Existing rail links between Lelystad and Amsterdam Zuid would see upgrades for increased vmax. Also, the line between Amsterdam-Utrecht is designed for vmax 200 km/h.
4. (Improved rail Belgium/Luxembourg) – In Belgium, construction is underway to increase line speed to vmax 200 (or 160) km/h on some sections between Brussels and Luxembourg City which also would decrease travel time and increase connectivity between both Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands. Completion is foreseen in 2026 (at least…)
5. (Deutschlandtakt) – You have also briefly touched this subject, I see. Just to add: In Germany, regarding Deutschlandtakt, the German government is renewing track and signaling between the Dutch border and Dusseldorf which would also help decrease travel time between Amsterdam-Dusseldorf-Frankfurt, and will also allow for an hourly service if desired. Also, considerations are made to Utrecht-Dutch Border to increase top speed to 200 km/h vmax. This would at least allow for a much faster service.
6. (Off-topic) – When it comes to shared mobility, best practices in both the Benelux/Germany could be implemented in the Windsor Corridor which could boost public transit in this region. So far I have seen, the bottleneck really is with the governments who only have legislation on restricting micromobility where-ever possible and not paying attention to making streets bike friendly. Interesting subject for you perhaps? Would love to help!
I must point out that the UK has conventional (i.e. non high-speed) 125 mph trains. The average, when not on strike, from Euston to Warrington can be 105 minutes or 104 mph.
I’m actually planning on moving to the Netherlands in the future so this video did a great job describing what to expect in terms of train travel and all I can say is this only makes me more excited to move there
Would add 2 things here: (1) while there is no dedicated HSL in Luxembourg, the French TGV actually does go there from Paris, Montpellier and Marseille (via the LGV Est). Also the Bxl – Lux line is currently being upgraded. While not HSL it might allow through running services (a propper Benelux train) going forward. This will depend though on the final speeds achieved.
I wonder if Singapore can have a High-Speed Rapid Transit Line on the North-South Line in future…
For those who are wondering he goes over luxembourg at 1:30
6:55 KLM and Air France are not just SkyTeam Members, they are the same company. They merged in the early 2000's.
well the Netherlands may be small, it’s very dense, with a density of about 500 people per sqkm, on par with South Korea for example, and ~66% denser than Japan even, in fact: If the US had the same population density as the Netherlands it would have a population of 5 BILLION, with a B
can you do prague metro pls?
Just come back to the UK from Belgium (by train from the Brussels city to the car park then car + eurotunnel) so can’t wait to see this!
We took the eurotunnel rather than the Eurostar simply because of the price! Had to park in the airport parking in Brussels and take the train into the city though because we couldn’t prove that the car meets euro 5 standards even though it does.
If anyone is thinking of going to Brussels I would say you should! Transport there is amazing and the city centre is very walkable.
The cars generally stop for pedestrians waiting to cross too which is amazing! Transport from the airport (where we parked) is very efficient but if you are coming from the UK as a single traveller or couple (or can afford the Eurostar as a family) id say the Eurostar is easier because it takes you right into the city.
Just because a country is small doesnt mean it doesnt need high speed rail. That logic would only apply if it was an island nation for example UK 🥲Odd opening premise but great video.
In Belgium, the implementation of High-Speed train and construction of HSL was completely phased.
When the First TGV ran from Paris to Brussels, only the French part was High-speed.
And slowly, but surely, the HSL were build up to enhance the service between those 2 cities lowering the travel time from 2h15 to 1h35.
Even the entrance in Brussels south station was build afterwards to gain the last 5 minutes on travel time.
That's one of the big advantages of the multicurrent feature of the Thalys PBA & PBKA (Paris-Brussels-Köln-Amsterdam) is that they can run on conventional line if the HSL is not (yet) ready.
Small comment about the HSL3 ending at the border, after about 30km there is another highspeed capable line from Düren to Cologne. But yeah, no way of continuing at high speeds after Aachen until you get to Düren.
5:30 Interestingly. this particular ICE set is owned by the Dutch railways (through NS International) as you can tell by the NS logos instead of the usual DB ones (and the name of the set, "Amsterdam"). I believe the Dutch-owned ICE fleet is also used for ICE International services that run completely outside the Netherlands (like those between Brussels and Germany), so there's no real practical difference between sets with a DB logo vs. those with an NS logo, but it's definitely interesting.
Our countries may be small, but we too like to be at our destinations as quickly as possible. 😉
Two remarks:
1. I do like that youre "ego" allowes to use other enthousiastics to fill in content like the Thalys part. To be honest , this proofs that your will to give verified and accurate information is superceding your will to do everything yourself. Even when it could hurt the reality. Big plus
2. @14:10.. Eurostar and Thalys merged and will become Eurostar as combined brand. Haha.. to hear this for the first time as a Dutchman from a Canadia …🤣
YES OH MY GOD THANK YOU REECE
one thing i'd like to note is that between brussels and just outside of gent there is a small hsl like track (sort of like the hanzellijn) which was originally built for the thalys extension to oostende
if said train is equipped with etcs and can operate faster than 160 kmh they are allowed to go at 200 kmh
The interruption at the Belgian-German border is just a few kilometers though, the highspeed part continues in Düren, into Cologne and then further toward Frankfurt etc.
Whats also interesting concerning the connection to germany is that Deutsche Bahn has (theoretically) the permission to use the Eurotunnel with its trains. They originally had plans to use it to connect cologne via brussels and amsterdam via brussels to London. Not only would that make the price for a connection to London a lot cheaper(Not paying DB, SNCB AND Eurostar, but only DB), but also the tunnel would get used more frequently.
Unfortunately this was in the late 2010s and additionally to the Brexit which would mean passport controls on the british border, that project seems to be kinda given up on, which i think is sad.
Getting on to the Eurostar (returning to London) at Amsterdam Centraal was a little weird. My ticket didn't get me to the line and had to be let into the station by one of the station employees. Then had to go up to a platform where there is a passport office and had to wait for that too open. The office itself is pretty small. Like the size of two medium/large sized coffee shops. Still it was better than taking the plane albeit slightly slower. The difference is small enough thanks to passport control, (it is just a lot faster for the Eurostar), that the more comfortable train compared to having to lounge around a crowded airport, spoke to me. Also better views from a train than a plane.
There is a plan to build a new high speed rail connection in the Netherlands: the Lelylijn, from Lelystad to Groningen. Most studies now take 200 km/h as the build speed, but it has yet to be decided if it will actually be built. At the moment, the government has reserved 3 billion euros for it. Campaigners are expecting a contribution from the EU and from the local governments to fill the gap. This would shorten journey time significantly: as you can see at 10:34, the line to Groningen and Leeuwarden are everything but direct, made worse by the fact trains in NL generally run 140 km/h, even though the sections are pretty straight; in the curves that even visible from this map, trains need to slow down significantly. As it stands, even tough Groningen is much closer to Rotterdam than to Paris, one is quicker by train in Paris than in Groningen.
Another small thing: the line from Brussels to Gent, and then onwards to Oostende, is sometimes called HSL 0 due to its very straight alignment and lack of level crossings. Efforts are made now to increase speeds and quad track the corridor. This would allow running at 200km/h one day…
Mentioning KLM and Airfrance, not only they both skyteam members but in fact the same company
L25 and L25N max speed is 160 km/h
~ Belgian train driver
Not every BeNe HSL is built for 300 km/h, L3 Liège-Aachen has a max speed of 260 km/h. The limited speed of Line 25N is likely capacity related, similar to the Gotthard Base Tunnel since it is already equipped with ETCS.
ÖBB Nightjet using any Belgian HSR lines would be news to me since the NJ needs 2:08h to go from Aachen to Bruxelles, while THA or ICE do it in 1:14. This is especially sad because Wien-Bruxelles already suffers from its high trip time and the NJ could do 200 km/h.
While I totally agree with you about Eurostar border checks being inhibiting to train service, the UK government doesn't allow for any other solution. Maybe it's better after the next election but I doubt it.
A bit off topic, but wtf North America?!: I live near the Parc Exo station in Montreal and it is a bummer that it runs so infrequently…it could be a cool connection for newcomers in Parc X to get up to the mountains..You can bike up the the petit train du nord from the terminus at St Jérôme yet no one takes these trains so of course they are infrequent. We're all hyper about the REM but it would be cool to cover the EXO in Montreal (and compare to the flourishing European rail like Berlin, where the S Bahn actually carries people to places…I want the Exo to be that). Love your videos!
The Intercity Direct is one of the best things that happened on Dutch rail in the recent decade in my opinion.
These are great, because they reduce the traveling time a lot. For example: from Rotterdam to Schiphol Airport it takes only 23 minutes with the train, while it takes 41 minutes with car. Same with Breda to Rotterdam, via the HSL: 23 minutes with train and 40 minutes with the car.
Your joking right??
Trains from Brussles-Koln 6 times a day
Maybe 3 if your lucky
In my opinion High Speed lines in the BE and NL doesn't make much sense, at least at the speed of 300 km/h. HS trains take a lot of time (and distance) to accelerate to such velocity, and those lines are simply not long enough to reap the benefits, i.e. between Amsterdam and Rotterdam Thalys is only 3 min quicker then the IC Direct. Here the ICNG approach, with max 200 km/h, looks much more reasonable, especially if that can reach the top speed earlier then TRAXX pulled ICs, or Thalys EMUs.
The way to have somewhat effective 300 km/h there would be to build a direct line between Amsterdam, and Brussels, and between Brussels, and Cologne, but then Rotterdam, Antwerp, Liege, and Aachen would be underserved, which doesn't make much sense either.
I couldn’t listen to that guy say one more word in Dutch… !
2:54 Well, actually there is a high-speed connection in Germany, the upgraded Cologne–Aachen high-speed line. Roughly 70% of the track allows 200-250 km/h
13:45 Unfortunately, they never realized HSL-Oost, linking Amsterdam via Utrecht to Germany (Osnabrück), which would be SOOOOO important for a true European high-speed network. Connections like Amsterdam–Hannover–Berlin–Warsaw or Amsterdam–Hamburg–Copenhagen–Stockholm/Oslo could replace most air traffic. Amsterdam–Utrecht–Osnabrück are ~230 km apart, the fastest IC connection took 3 h, half of that should be possible.
This is annoying to watch. Because a lot of 'would better if's' that you mention are allready in place. Just like an almost hourly service between Paris and Amsterdam. Via Schiphol. So not 1 train a day. Or the Eurostar passport-check before boarding in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. That is allready in order. I get that it is not easy to find all the information. But for me, as I work with trains in the Netherlands, it is irritating to watch. Because it is an almost perfect system. Come check them out! And also our new HST ICNG NS 200Kp/H trainsets. Between Amsterdam via Rotterdam to Breda. Or The Hague to Eindhoven. A Intercity Direct (ICD) service. Our equivalent to the ICE or TGV of HST trains within the Netherlands. In the future also the ICD between Amsterdam and Brussels.
I do think it's important to mention that the Dutch NS asks an additional fee to use the InterCity Direct, that goes over the HSL while the Belgian NMBS just let you use every possible ticket on the HSL line.
Love how we’re talking about the Hanzelijn at a time when it’s been disrupted for months due to a 1000x surge in the power and signalling circuits 😅
Great video as always RMTransit! I would love a video explaining about Korean or Taiwanese High-Speed rail soon.